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Reviews for The Meaning of Pride

By : CardDragonBall

From ANON - Mechanical Butterfly on May 03, 2004
Oh wow this was a very amazing chap

�You just stood there and let him kill Tien?� --he is becoming an ass again! -_-

Heard that question in his mind again: how could you?--Goku is really ging through some emotional stuff...I fear what the outcome will be.

Wanted Vegeta to show up and tell him he did a good job or something, to remind him that he was a Saiyan after all, and that even if he killed the boar a different way it would still be dead. --I love how he looking at everything from all sides of the problem. How he keeps saying well if we did it one way or another would it turn out any differently...very deep and he is being very 'saiyajin' right now if you ask me and also fire fly island like.

�But if anyone knew, would we have to stop doing it?� So he lied. He knew the answer to that question. Yes. They would. --But why!? Why!?

Goku is kind of O_O showing up covered in blood and sayingetaeta's full name...

Stop being such a fucking human, Kakarot and tell me what�s wrong!�--@_@ uh...I don't think that was the right thing to say just then.
I must say I am surprised by Goku's outburst...but when I think about it not really. And he isn't 'that' stupid. I really hope things dont take a turn for the worse.
I really, really think you did an excellent job at writing Goku's outburt the way it was worded and even the all capital lettering was perfect. Really made it that much more real. Although I am afraid now...afraid that things may never be the same.

^.*
-MB-

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From ANON - macha on May 03, 2004
Aaaah! No, they can't fight, what will happen to the yummy lemons if they fight? I am really anxious to read Vegeta's POV next chapter.

Trying to stay silent while having sex. Hmmm, not the easiest of things to do if you are really enjoying yourself. So, I guess the boys must have really been enjoying themselves.

Poor Bulma, I can't imagine trying to sleep in the same building as two sayians having sex.

Thanks for the warning about the brownies. I will have to catalog the information. Never know when you need the kind of stuff that affects sayians so adversely.

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From on May 03, 2004
I wont say i didnt like the fight because i like fighting. But i will say that i hate the conflict between the two. ^_^ Anywho gohapthapter, nice lemon and as always really really enjoyable. Well i'm off to read more Saiyan-jin goodness, Ja ne!
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From jaygoose on May 03, 2004
Well that was a roller coaster...one minute Goku and Vegeta are at each other's throats and the next Trunk and Goten are banging. Nice...
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From on May 03, 2004
wah!...i agree with goku!...i don't want them to have problems!...no problems should goku and vegeta have!...*blinks*...hehe...think i jsut sounded like yoad...anywhoo...i adore this fic...i love the way that you write vegeta...he's so...vegeta-esque...i mean...so many people, including yours truly, do not write him in character and i love seeing a fic where he is in character yet also with goku...so, yay for you!...wooo!
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From ANON - Getarian on May 03, 2004
Well, that was a bit of a curveball. :-)

Tricky situation, and yeah, both of the pure bloods have some deep issues that need to be sorted, or their relationship is definitely doomed.

I can understand and sympathise with the fact that Goku is frustrated as hell that no matter who he is no-one is ever quite satisfied, and the fact that he feels that he can't just be himself, is something that he should have at least told Vegeta long before now, as he should have told Vegeta how much it bothered him that Vegeta seems to have no problems with the others believing that he is uke, when in fact it is Vegeta. These are important issues to him and he shouldn't have been bottling them up.

Unfortunately, this is where my sympathies with Goku end. In his own way, he is also asking Vegeta to be less Saiyan, and in the most part, I truly feel that Goku is being incredibly unfair to Vegeta, especially blowing up at him like that.

I'm curious as to what Goku wanted from Vegeta in relation to the uke issue and how he would feel if anyone knew. Vegeta admitted that Bulma knew, that's a very big thing for the Prince, it took courage for him to admit this to her, but it's still apparently not enough to settle Goku's mind. Vegeta has given a lot in this relationship, he has shown more of himself to Goku than he has to anyone else, he has accepted the role of uke without complaint, he has made himself completely vulnerable to Goku, and every time that Goku stopped him from following through on his instincts, Vegeta accepted this without complaint, allowing the others to see that Goku had this power over him.

Yet Goku seems to want to know how Vegeta would be should everyone know. Why? Why should everyone know? Why, once again, does Vegeta have to surrender something of himself to prove his love for Goku? Goku knows of Vegeta's pride, knows that his status as uke is something deeply personal for him. He should respect that. Vegeta never told the others what they chose to assume, yet it seems to bother Goku that Vegeta never corrected that misconception, which implies that it also bothers Goku, so in that case why is he so down on Vegeta about it when he knows that pride is a much bigger thing for Vegeta than it ever has been for him?... and why should Vegeta have to justify his relationship with Goku to anyone anyway?

These are the thoughts thare rre running around in my head, as I read this.

If Goku had sat Vegeta down and told him this, then maybe they could both tell the others that they can assume what they want, but they'll never know the truth, because it's not their right to know. However; Goku has let this brew, and now he's coming right down on Vegeta, who has only been trying to build a relationship with Goku.

I am also surprised that Goku didn't remember that Vegeta wanted to kill Tien long before he found out about their relationship, and that Tien had been pushing at Vegeta long enough to make even the simplest thing be the last straw for him... as it happens, it wasna sia simple thing... but yeah, Tien definitely had it coming anyway... it wasn't just out of the blue and that one factor that did it.

It seems to me that he's expecting too much of Vegeta. Asking him to surrender way too much of himself for their relationship. So far, I see that Vegeta is trying (against all odds) to build a relationship with Goku, but Goku seems to be trying to build a relationship around his son'nd ind in some respect, his friends, approval, so much so, that they nowe hie him questioning himself, and Vegeta.

Also, knowing that Goku admitted to himself that had ChiChi been alive, then he wouldn't even be with Vegeta, just made me feel really bad for both Vegeta and Bulma.

A very emotional chapter, and I am definitely interested in seeing what happens next. But am very worried that these two have some big issues between them, and outside influences have not helped at all.

I understand what you said about Goku and why he reacted like this, and I went back and re-read it, to see if maybe I overlooked someg img important, which would change the way I saw this chapter, but I honestly couldn't. I really do bve tve that Vegeta has given a lot in this relationship, and surrendered enough of his Saiyan ways. He at least was honest in his feelings for Goku, and was strong enough to make the decision to leave Bulma, which was not an easy thing for him to do to her.

"So�basically, Goku needs a hug. And Vegeta didn�t give him a hug when he needed it. So�"

I really thought that Vegeta admitting to him that Bulma knew about his uke status, was better than any hug. These guys aren't the hug types. :-)

"(I have so been building up this fight since chapter 18 or 19 when Tien first says �How can you let that thing fuck you?� But nobody really commented on it. *sigh* I bet they�ll comment now!! MWHAHAHAHAHAHA!)"

I remember that scene. I honestly didn't think it was a big deal for Goku, which is why I didn't say anything. Goku has never had a big issue with pride before, he's always just done whatever suited him, so yeah, that's why I never saw anything brewing from this. I thought that he was just annoyed with their attitude in general, and just wanted to get away from them, which is one of the reasons that I suspected that he kept allowing the others to keep calling Vegeta a "thing" without once getting annoyed over that, 'cause I figured that he just felt that it wasn't worth the exta grief, and I guess I was wrong about all of it. Nope definitely didn't see this coming. :-)

Guess I'm going to have to wait and see what happens next. You definitely surprised me in this chapter. Not the argument bit, I sort of figured something was brewing because of what Goten said, buah, ah, I figured that Goku would let Tien's death finally get to him, and that's what it would all be about. Not complaining mind you, I like the fact that you're not predictable, even when I don't necessarily agree with it. :-)

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From jaygoose on May 01, 2004
Oh my god! That was a cliffy! *Sighs* You are just trying to get back at me...I know it. j/k. Anyway, you're right this fight soo had to happen. Vegeta has been to closed off about this. I know it seems that he has been overly emotional in this fic but its not really true, at least when it comes to Goku. Your also right that Goku did need a huge and Vegeta just ignored it and brushed it under the carpet. Now look what you did...*sits back with popcorn and soda* This is going to be so good....MUHAHAHAHAAAAA!...I'm evil okay...Gosh!
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From ANON - macha on May 01, 2004
I would ask for some of those brownies, but I am afraid they'd go the same way as the ice cream. *shrugs in regret, then scratches head about side mark to MB* Is there something in those brownies I should know about?

I did like the hunt. The fact that Goku balcked out in the process is a little unsettling.

I hope Vegeta gives Goku a VERY good answer to his question. (He wanted to know what was on Goku's mind.) Even if that means Vegeta has to go off by himself and think about the answer for a while.

Picolo all smirky makes me a little freaked out. *hope he takes that as a compliment*
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From ANON - Hecate18 on May 01, 2004
That was cruel... so cruel!
I don't want Vegeta and Goku to fight... Goku shouted at Vegeta OH THE HORROR! *faints, then gets up to continue review.*
Goku and Vegeta will be together forever... won't t*sni*sniffles*

I'll be 'patient' though... don't worry my eye usually twitches
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From on May 01, 2004
......I just reviewed the other chr. ~r. ~Crys~ I have nothing to say but poor Goku. ~Sniff~ Bye!
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From on May 01, 2004
~Grins~ Awwww, thats so sweet, cute little Veggie just can't resist Goku in any shape or form. I do hope we can see a Pan/Bra bit, maybe skip a few years for it after finalizing Goku and Vegeta's relationship withought any more problems on the way any time soon. Dose that make sence? Oh well i try,lol. It's just that there are hardly any Pan and Bra fic's because everyone is trying to get Pan with Trunks. Its a shame really, and Bra with Goten, it just a big darn shame. Can't wait till the next chap, Ja ne! ^_^
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From ANON - Getarian on May 01, 2004
Latest Chapter...yeah, I caught up :-)

LOL! Poor Goten stuck with the washing... that'll teach him to be such a worrier... does that mean that I have to do Goku's washing next time? Nah, 'cause I didn't get to see them in a compromising position... (read about it... not quite the same) ;-) ... but hey, for the chance of that, I'd happily do the washing the old fashion way, a river, a rock... :-D

"There had been the feeling that something truly terrible was going to happen."

So Trunks felt something was off as well... wondering if it has all been successfully diverted, or if trouble is still there, hidden.

"When he had checked on them, his parents were sitting side by side on the bed and talking-such a weird and comforting sight."

I like thiI'mI'm glad that Trunks still thisthis. I'm glad thalma lma and Vegeta have this. :-)

"...(Which Trunks had scrubbed because Goku�s clothes at touched it and there was no way food could be served off that surface unless it was sanitized completely.)"

LOL! Gods, just how much did Goku's clothes stink... were there toxic fumes? :-D

Love how Bulma and Goten made Trunks blush... can totally understand his embarrassment, telling the parents that you're off to have sex isn't exactly on the top of the list of things to do. :-)

�I went to talk to Gohan today. Because, I didn�t want him to� You know��
�Turn into a fucking bastard again?�
"�Right. Anyway..."

LOL! Loved this. Vegeta definitely doesn't mince words, and I love that Goku seemed to casually agree with this assessment. :-D

�You didn�t tell him what Tien said, did you?�
�No,� Kakarot said, �Besides its none of his business.�

Liked this. This would definitely be an area where Vegeta wobe dbe deeply protective of. Tien proved just the very reason why. Bulma enjoying the information and gently teasing Vegeta was one thing, because there was no malice in it. However; the others probably wouldn't hesitate to use this information in an attempt to belittle him... and I love that Goku also agrees that it's none of their business... it's personal.

"There was something he wasn�t saying, but it was his damn kid so Vegeta wasn�t going to pressure him into saying something that he didn�t want to."

Wondering what it is that Goku is not telling Vegeta... thinking that Gohan probably said something uncomplimentary in regards to his relationship with Vegeta.

�Yeah, that and I found Piccolo and told him that you killed Tien, just in case he was wondering about it or something. He really didn�t seem to upset. Smirked a little though. Wouldn�t tell me why.�

Hmm, Piccolo is really something of an enigma in this... wondering about the smirk, myself. It could be as simple as the fact that he thought that Tien was a complete dick as well, and has no problems with Vegeta, being Vegeta, in this respect. Or, something else... wondering if he sensed trouble brewing the same way that Goten did... maybe through his connections with Kami? Or, maybe something else altogether... I shall do a Goku, and ponder this. :-)

�Did you have lunch?�
"And this snapped Kakarot right out of thought."

LOL! Hope I last longern Gon Goku. :-D

"(Good enough that Vegeta was starting to wish that he had Kakarot in his planet-purging party all those years that he was stuck eating the shit that Nappa had caught..."

LOL! Mmm, choice insecty-type parts... what's he complaining about? LOL!

�Bulma knows.�

"This stopped Goku in mid-liftoff and he turned, gave Vegeta one of those truly dazzlingly stupid grins. �Really? You told her?� As if this was the equivalent of telling the entire world."

Really pleased that he told Goku this. It's possible that Goku only really needed to know that Vegeta wasn't somehow ashamed of this aspect of their relationship. The fact that Vegeta openly told Bulma, proves that he isn't... that it is what he says it is... on-one else's damn business. :-)

Good chapter... definitely looking forward to the next :-)

Really enjoyed the end dialogue :-D

"Wow. That is a lot of reviewing."

Yeah, I think I was beginning to go word blind... I don't know how you do it. :-)

"Yeah, in chapter 30 I thought even Goku realized he probably shouldn�t have stepped in, and at the same time, I couldn�t see Goku doing anything less."

Yeah, you're right about that... Damn that bump on the head. LOL!

"...so when I visualize this �pressure cooker� thing I�m seeing Goku and Vegeta trapped in little mason jars. O.o. Floating around in strawberry jelly.)"

LOL!

"...Weird that you said �sense� it because in my originals there�s this girl who�s father was a Prophet and she can �sense� the future through her emotions."

Ooo, sounds interesting! Yeah, I said sense, because Bardock, was given his second-sight as a curse, so inherently it wasn't a true part of his genetic make-up, so I figured that probably on a genetic level, the most he could pass on was a "heightened sense of things"

"...Thusly, they would have to fight their own fathers out of fighting. O.o did that make any more sense?"

Yes, very much so. Thanks for the explanation :-)

"*Realizes that she is author, still pretends as ie jue just read it, and thusly could root for what was going to happen. *"

LOL! Still, it's good to be able to pour your emotions into a scene, probably why you are such an evocative writer... could be very draining though... but that's where your sense of humour would come in handy :-)

"AHHHH! The Godfather! I love that movie. I love Michael!"

Me toThe The first one will always be my favourite. I had a soft spot for Sonny, cried my eyes out when he died... waited impatiently for Michael to kill off the brother-on-law.

"I figured it up and in order to have actually typed that chapter (which I did, I wasn�t lying, I had a stop watch and everything) in twenty minutes my typing speed had to be around 100 words a minute."

Pretty impressive... last time I clocked myself (which was a few years back) I was 65wpm... and yeah, I totally believe that you did it in 20 minutes, your amazing output is proof enough of this. :-)

Phew... have to do the other reviews later... have a bus to catch in about 1/2 an hour.

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From ANON - Getarian on May 01, 2004
Review for: Chapter 34

Really liked Vegeta's thoughts in the beginning. Particularly liked this:

"Sometimes rage could not be dealt out in just a stroke of death. Sometimes it burned inside of you and had to be avenged. Needed to be expressed."

Can't possibly relate to how the first sentence makes a person feel (and don't ever want to), but the rest of it was very well expressed, definitely somethinsee see Vegeta recognising within himself, which is a good thing, because with all the rage he has experienced, if he bottled all that up... whoa baby... there wouldn't have been enough planets in the universe...

"Radditz had submitted to him only because he had defeated the man, had fought him every time for dominance, and lost every time."

Yeah, I can seis. is. It sounds very Saiyan. Gotta love that Radditz gave it a shot every time even though he knew that Vegeta was stronger. I can see that Vegeta is in awe of the way Goku is, he's an anomaly in the Saiyan world, and Vegeta definitely seems to respect this side of him,(after years of being frustrated by it) :-) ... and yeah, he doesn't seem to be seeking dominance over Goku, which makes this a completely different relationship altogether... and I was wondering if Vegeta would ever miss this aspect of the Saiyan mating instinct... until I read this:

"Now he had the chance, and it wasn�t the same."

... and this sort of gave me the answer. Wondering just what it boutbout being with Goku, which could have brought about this change in him, and I think you nailed it for me, earlier when Vegeta was thinking about how no matter what aspects of himself that Goku saw, it didn't change the way he felt about him. Vegeta would appreciate this fact, no seeking to change who he is, just accepting this side of him, whilst at the same time, Goku was showing him how to calm the raging beast from within... something which Goku would at some level have to understand himself... I've always believed that Kakarot is still lurking somewhere inside of Goku... and yeah, so Goku would understand better than anyone, and Vegeta would know this.

I like how you have these two interact with each other... it's very real... I mean it's not always going to be blissful understanding between these two, but it's early days in their relationship, so yeah, the way they are with each other, is perfectly natural. Would love to see a stompy argument one of these days though... the make up sex would be incredible. :-)

"There was no pride in causing your lover pain. Just a loss of pride, a cowardice that there was something you could not reveal, even to the one you chose to stay by. He was no coward."

Totally loved this. This second time for Vegeta as seme, went alot better than the first time. He now seems to know that he can control himself with Kakarot under him. I'm pleased that he no longer seems to fear that he may seek to totally dominate, or to cause pain or humiliation to his one-time rival. A sense of calm seems toe see settled within him, during his time with Goku. Really loved the lemon... ultimately an exploration of love.

"Goku had half-expected to wake up to find himself utterly disgusted with himself or to wake up alone."

Looks like Goku had a learning experience as well. I like that. It's good to see that Vegeta was not the only one with doubts. :-)

"But, he chose to be with Vegeta, chose to wake up with him and go to sleep with him, to wrap his arms around him and hold him. Kiss him and love him. Part of that was realizing there were things that he did not agree with."

Yeah. I really liked this. :-)

"�You are not making a pregnant woman wash your hes!hes!� came the reply from the bathroom."

Yeah, you tell him Vegeta. :-) Love how Goku is still trying to get out of washing his clothes. :-D

�How about my pesky son that keeps showing up uninvited?�

LOL!

Enjoyed this chapter. :-)

Really loved the end dialogue. :-D

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From ANON - Mechanical Butterfly on May 01, 2004
Great chapter,

His father had stayed upstairs with his mother for almost all this time. (Which was downright disturbing becauhey hey hadn�t even talked this much when they were together.)--Oh *gasp* what is going up up there...hm? j/k

Picked up all the clothes off r anr anted ted them out to the kitchen table. (Which Trunks had scrubbed because Goku�s clothes at touched it and there was no way food could be served off that surface unless it was sanitized completely.) --lmao..ewww that is just sick. How can someones clothes smell that awful. That is bad...sanitized..hehe

�It should probably be something we can do in your room��--lol, what good pretend thinking and subtle-ness he has. He should become an actor of professional liar...if they have those.

As if he had no qualms with all but saying: �Yes, we are going to have sex, but I�ll gag Trunks if it�ll allow you to sleep better.�--rofl, that is awfully nice of him. And I am very glad that statement didn't send Bulma into labor.

*gasp * Bulma went to sleep she didn't get dinner!

�I went to talk to Gohan today. --oh god help us all...Gohan..talking to Gohan is like talking to...well Gohan!!! It is just impossible. Although it seems like he took Tiens death well...but why is Goku acting so strange???!!!

This set Kakarot off to wondering about this particular puzzle which could very well take the whole of the afternoon and the evening.--LoL, hehe we don't want that.

�Would it be a bad thing? I mean, if anyone knew about what we do.� --hehe, ..why is he asking this...? *suspicious*

As if this was the equivalent of telling the entire world.--rofl, aww Goku is so adorable! *squeezes him to dea

*Trunks and Gina look at one another. * Meanwhile� *Card jump up and down and shouts: I KNEW HE WAS EVIL! I KNEW I KNEW! *--*looks at Card and points as Doppelganger Goku walks in with a pan of brownies and hands everyone one.* Evil...? I didn't say anything about evil...he just likes to bake and he knows how much eating can distract a saiyajin...*smiles as DG gives Trunks and Gina some brownies* Yes..eat up that batch was made especially for you two....*grins sweetly thtepsteps into a dark corner and grins evilly* MWHAHAHA..er...I mean *coughs* choking on a brownie...

*Twins inch away from writer, accidentally get too close to MB and are suddenly sucked into her deranged world * --so you two have decided to step into my evil psychotic dark corner!!!! *hands them both a brownie*

^.*
-MB-

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From jaygoose on May 01, 2004
I love this story...it is so emotional. I liked your description: weird and normal. Weird because you never thought it would happen and normal because they belonged together. I love this fic so much.

I thought that the laundry thing with Goten and Goku was so cute and so believeable. I wish I could write as fast as you by the way...I am glad you liked it though, I was a little worried about those chappies...they seemed a little rushed *dodges rotten fruit* He he.
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